Oh, it’s okay, she’s a policewoman. And those guys in her gang, they’re police too, so that’s all right then.
Or is it?
Obviously this blog is about life in Australia. I try to cover everything from the good the bad and the ugly. So today I am going to talk about guns in Australia, gun law and police with guns. Ooh…. and murder.
I hadn’t really thought about it much before, until I went to the Ipswich 150th Anniversary Fun Day event the other Sunday. There were slides, bouncy castles, roundabouts and a live show and lots of children just running around having fun. Strolling in the sunshine were three local policemen……
As I got closer, I thought “isn’t that a gun?”
So I took a closer look….
Yes, it sure was. And it seemed strange given the surroundings, but here in Australia the police do routinely carry guns. That didn’t happen back in England and has been the source of many a debate in that country for as long as I can remember. They still carry truncheons or extendable batons and in addition to that, they might have CS spray. The UK police can also call upon Armed Response Vehicles and Firearms Units when needed.
So, is it safer here in Australia?
It would appear that the use of guns by police worldwide is more common than a police force without guns. So in that respect you could say that Australia is “normal”. But is it safer?
I suppose what troubles most people about police and guns is the prospect of excessive use, people getting shot who really should not have been. I think every police force in the world has been accused of that and Australia is no different. In particular, Victoria police shot a 15-year-old boy in a Kmart store whose only weapon was a knife, when many people believe it would have been just as easy to contain him. The police on the other hand, maintain that one of their officers lives were in danger and they had no choice.
But then I remember back in England when, in 1983, police (from one of those special armed units) ambushed and shot Stephen Waldorf five times as he sat in traffic in his mini. It was a case of mistaken identity and luckily Waldorf survived.
There will always be mistakes. The hope of course, is that there aren’t too many of them.
So the police have guns, but do the people? After the Port Arthur massacre of 1996 in Tasmania, when Martin Bryant killed 35 people and injured 21, which still remains some kind of record for lone gunmen killings worldwide, Australian gun ownership laws were tightened up significantly.
As a result, all privately owned guns require a permit and it is currently estimated that around 5.2% of the population own licensed guns. Over in America where I believe it is every citizen’s right to own a gun if they so choose, it is estimated that there could be anything between 25% and 50% of the population who own guns.
But in England I believe there are only around 2 million registered guns which would suggest less than 3% of the population are armed. So how does that translate into murder/homicide rates in each of those countries?
Turns out, from my research, that it appears if somebody is going to kill you, they’re going to kill you, whether they’ve got a gun or not. Take a look at these figures….
Murders per 100,000 population by gun.
- England & Wales 0.12
- Australia 0.31
- USA 2.97
So you are almost 3 times more likely to be shot in Australia than you are in England & Wales. But you are nearly 10 times more likely to be shot in the USA than you are in Australia.
Murders per 100,000 population NOT by gun.
- England & Wales 1.33
- Australia 1.26
- USA 1.58
Take guns out from the equation and there’s really not that much in it between all three countries.
Overall murders (by any means) per 100,000 population.
- England & Wales 1.45
- Australia 1.57
- USA 4.55
These, I would suggest, are the figures that count. It would appear you are three times more likely to get murdered in America than you are in Australia or England and Wales where there is not a huge amount of difference between the two countries.
So do police carrying guns make for a safer country? No, not according to these figures. Do restrictions on private gun ownership make for a safer country? Yes, it looks pretty conclusive to me.
One final word. If you find these figures scary, don’t go to Columbia for your holidays. Overall murders there (by any means) per 100,000 population run at 62.7, 51.8 with guns.
But if you want to go somewhere that does have fewer murders than Australia then choose from Chile, Denmark, Germany, Ireland, New Zealand, Qatar, Singapore, Spain and Switzerland which all have lower rates.
Source: Wikipedia
Related posts:
- North Stradbroke Island: Day Two
- Australia Versus England: Drunken Violence
- It’s Schoolies Week in Australia
- Interesting Facts About Australia – #1
- What Do Australians Do When They Are Angry?
{ 10 comments… read them below or add one }
I don’t think you can just look at the stats and make conclusive arguments. Most gun violence in the USA comes from gang violence (sorry to say African American gangs often involved with drugs). If you took them out of the equation I think you would find the USA on par with Aus & UK.
Also, many lives are saved by law abiding armed civilians. If it wasn’t for good people with guns, violent crimes would be much higher in America. In areas of high (lawful) gun ownership incidents of violent crime are extremely low.
Personally I’ve never felt safer than when I was at a shooting range in America. No one will touch me there for fear of other civilians defending me.
I’m not sure you can just take “gang violence…….out of the equation”. If we do that, I think we lose the point somewhat. But hey, I’m not going to argue with you! I never take issue with somebody who has a gun.
ANY ONE WHO EVEN THINKS MARTIN BRYANT WAS CAPABLE OF SHOOTING 22 PEOPLE IN THE HEAD —DEAD–IN 20 SECONDS–NEEDS A BRAIN- A GROUP OF 4–IMPORTED SPECIAL TROOPS WERE BROUGHT IN TO AUS. BY AUS. GOV.–TO PANIC THE SHEEP HERD INTO PASSING AN ADOLF HITLER STYLE GUN LAW.- MARTIN BRYANT WAS ===FRAMED===..HE GOT NO TRIAL–NONE–HE WAS FORCED TO CONFESS—GEORGE BUSH STYLE.. JOHN HOWARD BULL DOZED ALL THE EVIDENCE THE NEXT DAY AFTER THE CRIME…—–IT IS ILLEGAL TO DESTROY EVIDENCE IN ANY CRIME BUT THIS WAS THE CRIME OF THE CENTURY AND HE GOT –AWAY WITH IT.—JUSTICE IN AUSTRALIA—WHERE DID IT GO—TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER==??THE 98 % CONTROLLED MEDIA—PRINTED LIE AFTER LIE TO MAKE SURE MARTIN GOT HUNG,—-WAKE UP PEOPLE—-YOUR WORLD IS BEING TAKEN AWAY BY A PACT OF INSANE POWER CRAZY NUTS. AND IF YOU DONT OPEN UP YOUR BRAINS—THEY WILL MAKE YOU ALL THEIR –SLAVES—GT.
Alright, alright! No need to shout!
Hello Eugene and welcome. You obviously think Martin Bryant is innocent then? I’m kind of the newish to this country, and I have to admit at the time of writing this article I was blissfully unaware of the many conspiracy theories floating around involving this case.
Now I love of good conspiracy theory just as much, if not more, than the next man. But four specially imported troops? All arranged by the Australian government? Just to get guns banned? If it all sounds a bit fanciful to me.
I, like many people, would love to know the truth. But I reckon I could spend the rest of my life looking into this and still not get to the bottom of it. The case for Bryant’s innocence is not helped by some of the stuff out there, I found one site proclaiming his innocence which stated “We were deceived when “Lee Harvey Oswald (1939-1963), was accused and arrested for the killing of John F. Kennedy. We now know up to five CIA agents murdered their own president in 1963, Dallas, Texas”
We now know? Well, I must have missed that meeting.
Anyway, I have no idea whether Bryant is innocent or not, but I do thank you for bringing your theories to our attention.
By the way, just to make it clear to anyone who doesn’t know, Bryant wasn’t “hung”, other than metaphorically if you believe he was framed. I think he’s still alive and well and banged up to 35 life terms, isn’t he?
YES MARTIN BRYANT IS STILL ALIVE IF YOU CALL IT LIFE ??.-I FORGOT TO MENTION IN MY LAST COMMENT-THAT MARTIN BRYANT HAD A HOME AND ASSETS OF NEAR -1 MILLION AU.-THE GREAT HONEST-JUSTICE LOVING-?–GOVERNMENT OF AUS.–STRIPPED HIM OF IT ALL SO HE COULD NOT AFFORD A LAWYER TO DEFEND HIM.–SO THIS BIGGEST CRIME ==EVER==IN AUSTRALIA-WENT–INTO HISTORY–SO–FAR–WITH NO–TRIAL..-THERE ARE AUSTRALIANS FEW BUT SOME THAT HAVE AN IQ–BIG ENOUGH TO KNOW–MARTIN BRYANT WAS FRAMED–BY THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PM OF THIS GREAT ??==COUNTRY OF AUSTRALIA.—-AFTER 15 YEARS HE IS STILL ROTTING IN PRISON AND NO AUSTRALIAN WITH ANY POWER AND MONEY IS TRYING TO HAVE HIM RELEASED- IF I HAD A TON OF MONEY I WOULD GET THE BIGGEST AND BEST LAWYERS BOTH HERE AND THE US TO GET HIM A TRIAL.—HE WOULD BE FREE IN A SHORT TIME==AS THERE–IS==NO–EVIDENCE–AGAINST-HIM–THAT WOULD HOLD UP IN ANY COURT-NONE,—THERE IS VERY LITTLE TRUTH TODAY IN THE MEDIA–MOST OF WHAT YOU READ IS WHAT THEY YOUR MASTERS WANT YOU TO READ–AND ITS ALL==PROPAGANDA- JUST THINK IF MARTIN BRYANT–WAS YOUR SON-WHAT WOULD YOU DO-?? LET–HIM DIE IN PRISON FOR A–CRIME===HE==DID==NOT==COMMIT,, —I AM AN AMERICAN–SO I AM LIMITED AS WHAT I CAN DO TO HELP HIM,–WHEN THIS FIRST HAPPENED IN 1996- I TRIED TO GET THE PEOPLE TO GET HIM A TRIAL.——I WAS INFORMED TO BACK OFF OR ELSE.==YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT ELSE MEANS.–IF I PUSH TOO HARD–I MAY LEAVE THIS COUNTRY–IN A WOOD BOX OR BODY BAG,-THAT,S THE KIND OF PEOPLE WE ARE DEALING WITH,—-911—WAS–DONE BY SAME GROUP—3000 DEAD AT GROUND ZERO—14,000 MORE DEAD FROM RADIATION FROM BOMBS USED IN THE DEMOLITION—38,000 MORE IN VERY SERIOUS HEALTH CONDITIONS,,—-1200 ENGINEERS SIGNED A PETITION TO HAVE A REAL INVESTIGATION—–9 YEARS GONE—NO—INVESTIGATION–YET ???——HOW POWER FULL ARE THESE PEOPLE??—-ANSWER THEY ARE THE MASTERS OF THE ==NEW==WORLD==ORDER====YOU ARE EITHER WITH–US–OR===YOU==ARE==DEAD==IS THEIR MOTTO.———————–GENE….—POLITICAL MAJOR—ARMY GUN MASTER…TIME ON PLANET—78 YEARS———DID I EVER CONNECT WITH THE ALIENS——NO======COMMENTS————–
Hi Eugene
Maybe I was too subtle last time. Eugene, on your keyboard there is a key on the left-hand side, third from the bottom. It’s called “Caps Lock” please press it once before adding any more comments on this blog. Thank you.
Anyway, I think we all have got your views now on this thing. What I really want to know is about your alien encounter! And are you really 78?
Don’t forget, “Caps Lock”!
I’m not sure what you mean by safer country. Gang on gang violence is not a problem for most Americans. American cities are very different from those in the UK, with the middle class and the poor being greatly geographically divided. Most Americans don’t regularly go into very troubled areas. The USA’s huge drug problem and proximity to nations such as Mexico and Columbia are also causes of the high homicide rates.
Also you should also look at state by state homicide rates and gun laws. Vermont has the most relaxed gun laws in the country, but the second to lowest homicide rate out of all the states and territories in the USA. It also happens to have a slightly lower homicide rate than the UK (as a whole, not just England & Wales). The state with the lowest is New Hampshire, which also has favorable gun laws. New Hampshire’s homicide rate is a lot lower than that of the UK. The District of Columbia and Puerto Rico have some of the strictest gun laws in the USA, yet are number 1 and 2 respectively when it comes to homicide rate. As well as this, gun laws have been steadily improving in a number of states in recent years, with the legalization of open carry in multiple states where it was previously prohibited. The homicide rate in those states has continued to decrease.
You should also look at countries other than the 3 you brought up. I noticed you said “But if you want to go somewhere that does have fewer murders than Australia then choose from Chile, Denmark, Germany, Ireland, New Zealand, Qatar, Singapore, Spain and Switzerland which all have lower rates.” Switzerland is very interesting, as (for Europe) it has very relaxed gun laws and a very high gun ownership rate, 4th in the world. As well as this, a number of nations in South America, like Jamaica, Venezuela and Mexico, which have restrictive gun laws have remarkably high homicide rates.
I think the study you have conducted seems to have some bias and does not take into account a number of variables.
Afghanistan has good gun laws but a very high homicide rate, can you really blame the guns for this?
I would have to agree with Nik and Jay.
If you rule out the few bad areas of America’s biggest cities, I’d be willing to bet that most of America is one of the safest countries in the world. The numbers are not truly accurate ways to judge how common violent crimes are here. Like mentioned above, there are certain areas (usually very small parts of only the largest cities, or cities along the Mexican border) where gang and drug related violence in unfortunately very common. Just remember that most of those victims put themselves in harms way, and should not be confused with average citizens.
I don’t think you can just rule out a few ‘bad areas’ in the major cities – surely then every country could rule out their bad areas and still be significantly lower on gun violence than the US. As an Australian I find it quite scary that there are places in the US that you can’t go unless you’re prepared to be shot. There are some rough neighborhoods here but I don’t think any of them are ‘no go’ areas where you have to worry about being killed.
Jay and Andrew, I’ve got to say that Tyler (thanks Tyler) has answered in exactly the same way as I would have done if I’d got here first. As Tyler has suggested, you can’t really mess with statistics like that. You can’t rule out gang or drug-related killings, you can’t dismiss certain areas, because when you start doing that, you are twisting statistics.
What I have tried to do above is compare three countries, like for like.
Jay, you have provided us with some fascinating information and assuming it’s all correct, I think we would all have to conclude that homicide rates are not directly related to gun ownership laws. I’m sure it has an influence somewhere along the line, but other factors must also be coming into play.
I’m sure there are huge areas of America that are safe, but I do also know there are many areas that are regarded as “no-go” areas there. There are an increasing number of “no-go” areas in the UK too.
Here in Australia, I don’t think we have too many of those, if any at all. I have not been everywhere though, does anyone in Australia know of an area that it really is too unsafe to go to?
Thanks to all of you for your contributions, it’s an interesting debate.
Cheers
Bob