The Cost of Living in Australia: House Prices

Carolyn, yes, I think I got a headache writing it.

I have not heard of the FHOG but the government are currently running some incentives for first time home buyers here (about $20,000 I think) in Australia. I’m not sure how it works or how much longer it will last.

I have no idea who’s house that is, I just pulled up at the side of the road and took the snap. It’s not far from where I live.

We did go househunting but have decided to stay where we are for at least the next five years. We are really happy where we are.

Cheers

Bob

I’ve lived in south australia all my life. I would just give a word or two to caution you abouy property.
australia can be an excellent place to invest as property is some what of a national obsession here. Just be careful to buy the right place first. Change over costs ie: real estate fees, stampy duty and other moving costs can bite into your home equity very quickly if for example you decided to move and sell every 1-2 years as i have seen people do in the past. The longer you keep a place for the more capital investment it will give you, and, any change over costs, long term will represent a smaller proportion of your investment. Some stamp duty costs now are significant, so choose very wisely.

Hi Bob,

The last time I left you a message was to thank you for the info on your site and to let you know I was on my way to Aus in 2010. Well as you would know changes were made by Ausy gov in September last year. It could now take three years to get the subclass visa processed; I can’t tell you how frustrating it is we had the house on the market and boxes were being packed. I can see why this change was needed your Government is just looking after its own; I reckon that is why I really want to be living over there.
The house is still on the market but the boxes are unpacked.

I will see you soon mate,
Ray

Lol, sorry about the superlong url!

Hi, yeah that house looks nice, the huge garden would drive me crazy though I think! I’m more the type of guy who’d prefer a nice small manageable one and go down the park or out into the country if I feel the urge to run around.

If you prefer Brisbane then obviously you’d go for that one, personally I’ve got a lot of time for Manchester, it’s probably my favourite of the big UK cities, London is good of course but prices there are pretty much double anywhere else.

Australia has a population density of 2,8 people per square kilometer and the uk 255 people /km2,so the available land per each australian is 91 times more than in the uk…so i suppose land in australia should be a lot cheaper…

Looking at this site for the first time ,all seems to be bright and rosy liveing in sunny Australia.Thats what most people move to Australia for the sun.The big House with the swimming pool sounds great.Houses in Australia are just flashy sheds,pooly built,like fridges in the winter,ovens in the summer.Most houses are 4 times more exspensive than they are worth,Lots of big windows,and a tin roof.the glass is 3mm thick.On new estates they are crammed in 1mtr apart,the houses are so flimsy you can hear those next door fart.Being a retired builder,people couldn’t afford to buy a solid house like they have in the Uk,double glazing,windows,cavity brick,wall insulation ect.Most in Australia are in mortgage stress.To start off in Australia you need to be well cashed up.If labor gets thrown out at the next election,dont count on your earnings to go up.Work choices will be back,causeing alot of hardship for some unlucky workers.Forget about it being all milk and honey,it’s far from it.Lots of crime,murders,drunken violent anti social behavior,Schools full of bullies,and drugs,coruption top to bottom.Australia has it all.But it’s sunny.Anyone that has a nice home,good job,friends and family.Stay at home.Then you have the anti pommie bit to put up with.

Oh dear, seems close to a verbal punch-up Bob. I understand what Allan is on about , like most things comments are generally based on some form of truth. When returning to the U.K. our house felt like quality in comparison with those in OZ but then it was built before the UK imported bad building habits from the USA and Australia. Our home is double brick with insulation and never as cold as when I lived in Wangaratta Vic. However, not all homes in OZ have a tin roof and I don’t believe they’d have glazing only 3mm thick as it would be dangerous. I believe that building regulations over there are quite tough. ( Incidentially, my favourite house in OZ would be a Colonial homestead with yes, a tin roof.) As regards the anti pommie thing , what about the anti Scouse thing, anti Sydneysider ( if you’re from Melbourne ) in fact anti anyone who wasn’t born in the same town. In Liverpool we had to put up with a lot of ‘ knockers ‘ but our sense of humour got us through ….and if that didn’t work , watch out. Fortunately we don’t have to defend Liverpool anymore as it speaks for itself as it’s now a fantastic place. Liverpool ranks ahead of both Sydney and Melbourne when it comes to city centre living .The cities of Sydney and Melbourne in an Australian survey came in the bottom ten places ( out of over 500 ) for the worst suburbs to live in . Liverpool came third in a tourist survey ( ahead of Bath ) as a place to visit. Bob , once again Brisbane / Queensland still seems to be THE PLACE to live

Bob, what’s this ‘ BUT HE STARTED IT ‘ . No, you started it , you set up the site. When you set up a site like yours you’re bound to get some argumentative sods putting in their two penneth. ( If that’s how it’s spelt ). I’m not so bad , at least I hope not. In answer to your question , I was looking for Australias best suburb using Google where the top result was ‘ Australia’s Best and Worst Suburb ‘. At the end of the today.ninemsn.com article it showed the top twenty- five and bottom twenty-five suburbs. The bottom twenty-five included Melbourne City and Sydney City but for some reason the results have been deleted. Have the powers that be had something to do with this ? When I lived in N.E. Victoria I spoke of the area as though I worked for their tourist board and guess what , they wrote and offered me a place on an advisory board . Maybe I’m trying for the same in Liverpool !

I was born in Qld and have lived in the UK from 1986 until 2004. I enjoy the life style but Australian has become more expensive.

Our house in Uk sold for gbp 625000 in 2004. Is now being offered at gbp 525000. The property is near Rye East Sussex on 8 arces making the price at today’s exchange rate aproximately $900,000. We relocated to Buderim on the Sunshine Coast and a similar house here is $1.5 mm – $2mm. A full brick cavity bunglow across the road just sold in Gardenia place Forest Glen on 10 arces sold was $3.75 million and another property on Mons School road on 2 arces $1.8mm. $450000 south of Brisbane buys Logan City. Friends have just brought a 2 bedroom ex council house in Seville Road Holland Park & paid $525000 @ 7.25%. If you adjust the repayments by the standard UK interest rate makes the price gbp 600,000

Also, secondhand cars are double the price. In regards to salaries, I am an accountant: In London my salaries was $165,000 – here $95,000 & my wife is OT in Hastings $80,000 in Nambour $65000.
In short : f you come with enough money to buy a property outright. Life’s great but if you need to have mortgage at 7.25% with average house price in Buderim of $525000 which is a only 3 bedroom house the repayments are over $3300 per month. Jp

Hi again Bob,

just following up on our recent conversation. It seems that John Wilkes has already pointed out a few things before me!

Like John has mentioned, Muff is about 10 minutes from Derry/Londonderry, Northern Ireland’s second largest City, and the 4th Largest in Ireland. I said it was in the “middle of nowhere” as in relation to the countryside around it, not to its actual geographical location, sorry about the confusion. But, I think, all in all, whilst no direct comparison can be made to houses in the UK/Ireland and to Aussie houses, you cannot argue that *at present* the house in Muff is a better deal by far than the one in the suburb of Brisbane.

I will put a link here which discusses some of the problems that I see in today’s Australia (and obviously others see). It is worth a read and I think could add some discussion to the other side of this debate.

http://thomassu.com/index.php/2010/03/great-australian-exodus-aussies-leaving-australia-in-record-numbers/ (dated from march this year)

thanks for your follow up Bob.

The house you listed, the one in cedar vale, its a nice house, and 10 acres of land. WOW!

By the way, about those 10 acres… didn’t notice a picture of the land advertised…. you’d think they’d give you a picture of the surrounding view wouldn’t you…?

My guess…(and it’s only a guess) the 10 acres is very like what you see behind the house itself, i.e. nothing but trees and hills full of more trees, that is to say, you won’t be able to use the land for much unless you want to go camping in the bush

in fact, I used to deliver goods out that way, around Jimbooma and the surrounding area. Tell it as it is Bob, that area is “out in the sticks”.

Houses generally get cheaper the further from a major city you go. And Cedar Vale and the surrounding area are not seen as what you would call high employment areas are they? In fact, from driving around that area in 2004, I noticed quite a lot of agricultural families lived around that area.

You yourself (according to your about me page) work from home, so you don’t have to travel far to work, so I’d imagine that if you live in this area, you’d be quite happy indeed.

a lot of the properties you listed are what we would define as being “out in the country” or as the aussie would say “out in the sticks”

dalby for instance, its over 3 hours from Brisbane. good value, yes (still not as good as house prices back home though ) but its literally ‘out in the middle of nowhere’ hardly a good place to come to if you need to find work is it?

Aussies, traditionally are attracted to the sea, which is why most of them are living on the coast.

here’s a house in burnfoot, county donegal.

burnfoot is a 15 minute drive to Derry, i.e. a major city.

http://www.danielhenry.co.uk/radharc-alainn-burnfoot-donegal/77813

160,000 pounds, or approx $281,000 at the current exchange rate.
on half an acre as well. (And a granny flat for sticking the mother in law in when she come round )

please show me an equivalent size house on a similar size block, 15 minutes from a major city for $281,000. I’d be interested to see it.

Here’s a house 15 minutes from Wollongong, a major city south of Sydney, it is $270,000 in today’s rates.

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-nsw-warilla-106547184

would you class it is similar to that one at burnfoot there?

I’ve been through this area on my way to Wollongong. Warilla is an older, run down place. But this is the kind of property that $270,000 buys you 15 minutes from a major city here. And its not on anywhere near half an acre.

combine that with the current 7-7.6% variable rate mortgage…

how can you say that houses here are better value?

You cannot say that because Derry has only 10% of Brisbane’s population, that it cannot be compared.

The UK (including Northern Ireland) fits into Queensland alone around 6-7 times! Derry is a major city in terms of its population. Prices therefore reflect the locality to the major city. As you go further away from major cities, the prices should become cheaper? As referenced by your homes on acreage that you mentioned earlier.

“Forget the rat race living here.” is the ending sentence to the house you listed. That is real estate speak for “this is nowhere near civilisation” we know it is 1hr from Brisbane, but so is the gold coast and sunshine coast, and we know how popular the gold coast and sunshine coast is don’t we?

my point is, like-for-like, that house prices in Australia are higher, you get less for your buck. That wasn’t always the case, but since 2003 houses have gone up in price, steadily.

in addition to house prices, costs of services are going up. Have you got a town water supply to these houses in cedar vale? a lot of houses out that far have to run off their own tank water. Electricity supply isn’t the most ‘stable’ (I have in-laws up that way who lose power about once a fortnight)
what about services such as broadband (adsl/cable)?

I spoke with a real estate agent on friday when he came in here to value my mother-in-laws unit. She lives right on a main highway, in a modern (5 years old) 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom unit, in a complex. The suburb is on the lower end of the scale, not a trashy area, but, you’d consider other areas if you could afford it.

she was advised she would get $300K for her unit if she sold right now. 300K for a 3 bedroom unit right on a major highway! no way! but that’s what it was valued at, by the same guy who sold it to her 5 years ago for $230,000.

needless to say, she’s happy. However, he did tell her that he has gone from selling 4-5 houses a day, down to 1-2, because people simply are not buying houses. Even though he described her house as one that was towards the bottom of the market ($300,000 being described as bottom of the market, when you consider that $300,000 would buy you that house above at burnfoot and leave change in your pocket!) he said that she’d struggle to get a buyer, UNLESS it was an investor, willing to use the unit to rent out. The rental return, according to the real estate was currently $320 per week.

I will stand by my advice I gave earlier in this thread, If one is seriously considering moving to Australia on a permanent basis, then come here for an extended holiday, do your research online (sites such as this would be a great start!) and get a full picture of what life here is really like.

Australia is not immune to world economic situations. In my view, it is inevitable that we will have some form of recession here.

If the increasing costs that are being experienced on the street at this present time are indeed a sign of what’s coming, then I say, batten down the hatches and prepare for a storm, because the money box has been emptied and there is nothing to prevent us from falling into that recession pit. Ironically, if that happens house prices will fall also… maybe I’ll return when the recession hits

some other interesting links you might want to check out:-

from 2005 http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/house-prices-world-highest/2005/11/30/1133311106610.html

from February 2010 http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/02/01/australias-housing-bubble-its-already-here/

From July 2010 http://scottbanks.com.au/2010/07/12/sydney-auction-clearance-rate-slumps-as-supply-surges-jonathan-chancellor-property-editor-smh-com-au/

oh c’mon now Bob

you set up this site as you put it “to give the real story on life in Oz”

yet you are quite content to ignore certain aspects of living in Oz, as put to you by not just me, but others who have moved from the UK/Ireland (and other parts of Europe) to Oz.

Cedar vale is indeed one hour from Brisbane. Can you explain to the good readers here why Cedar vale and jimboomba are so cheap as opposed to 1 hr north and south of Brisbane Bob?

I’m guessing you already know the answer but please tell the readers why.

As for your comment about acreage, since when did people build tennis courts on acreage that goes uphill?

do you think you could go “quad-biking” on that land behind that house?

are you suggesting that the acreage is not part of the selling price? that $495K is just for the house?

People don’t buy acreage that is essentially the side of a mountain full of trees.

people buy acreage that is generally horizontal and hasn’t got trees.

show me a house with horizontal, fairly cleared land which makes up 10 acres and I guarantee you, they’ll want more.

acreage is only good if its usable. whether that be for farming or quad-biking or whatever. what about the remoteness? what about lack of services such as access to town water? lack of local facilities such as shops, transport etc.

I’ve been all over QLD, its a big state, not many choose to live west, and for good reason.

Whats wrong with my comparisons with Derry?

Derry is a city is it not? you started by trying to compare brisbane with some English Cities, so Whats the issue with Derry?

Are you running out of rebuttals because I’ve shown you more than once that houses on the outskirts of a city are cheaper over there than they are here?

what comment do you make about the house in Wollongong bob?

If your argument is that Derry is not brisbane, then Derry is not sydney either, Derry is more like Wollongong, same size, 4th Largest city in NSW, but look at the cost of houses the same distance from it. Look at the calibre of houses the same distance from it.

you quoted some figures from Strabane/Derry at 137K approx. That is still much less than the average house in any city in Australia isn’t it Bob?

Bob, my take on your comments about Australia is this, you’ve come here from the South of France (a beautiful part of the world!) and you’ve bought a house, outright from the sale of your own property in England.

with change in your pocket no less.

I argue (And others here have to) that you do that now and you will not get the same change in your pocket. You’ll argue that its because house prices in the Uk have fallen, true. You will also argue its the exchange rate, also true.

what you do not seem to want to accept, is that house prices in Australia are “on the average” more expensive than “Like for Like” houses back home – wherever you care to call home. Mine is Derry/Donegal, that’s where I’m going and that’s my viewpoint, if it doesn’t fit your viewpoint because houses there are cheaper and better value than here then I wonder how you can ” tell it as it is”, when you’re so adamant that Oz is better value when I’ve clearly shown examples, that, I feel show otherwise.

I would like to ask a question from you: if you came out to Oz, without the money in your pocket from your house in England, (lets say you were renting back in the UK), would you take out a mortgage and buy the same house you are in now? or would your thinking on house prices be the same now, given that you are apparently a home owner with no mortgage to worry about? (I’m only guessing that that is your position, if it is, then you are not an average home owner).

I am glad we at least agree on the advice to prospective new immigrants, that is to come here for an extended holiday first. I would also perhaps agree with another comment made above and that is, where possible (and feasible) hold off for 6 months or so and see where the Australian Economy is going. There are many things going on in Australia at the moment, I spoke with an old aussie bloke today and he told me that he has never seen it so bad. No matter how good life is for you, you need to listen to the ‘average’ person on the street, and the word on the street is that this country is going down the pan.

I would be keen to hear your viewpoint on the content of those articles in the links I posted in my previous post above, and where you feel that information points to in terms of affordability in housing.

I didn’t just wake up one morning after 8 years and decide that enough was enough, and start packing up. For the past 2 years I have been talking to people, looking at prices of services and properties increase, reading economist views and of course, experiencing it for myself over 8 years.

I think I make some valid points. It would seem that on the face of it, you disagree with most of them.

For the sake of argument, lets agree to disagree and see what the next 12-18 months brings. People can then see for themselves what is better.

regards.
Jon.

G’day bob

I’ve been watching the comments on your site for some time now and I think now is an appropriate time to add my 2 cents worth.

First of all, an introduction.
I’m Steve or Stevo in Aussie lingo. I’m 47, born and bred here in Australia. Married with 3 kids, all grown up, but kids still living at home.

I’m a salesman for a large pharmaceutical company (won’t say which one for privacy reasons) and been doing this job for going on 20 years now.

The wage I’m paid is $58,000 gross per year, but I do get to travel around Australia, having been in just about every corner of this country you can think of.

I’m a patriotic bloke, I have my Aussie flag hanging off the flagpole in the front garden. I’d BBQ anything, and I love my country. But, I’m not blind.

As a mortgage holder, and a true blue Aussie, I feel that I can give you a ‘man on the street’ view as Jonno put it as to how things here are really like.

Mate, I’ll be honest, I don’t feel you’re qualified enough to make opinions on the state of living in Australia when you’ve only been here for just over 2 1/2 years.

You wouldn’t have even had a good sunburning yet!

You say you’ve lived in the one property thus far.

How can you make such statements as you do then about house prices? Try selling your house and buying another, then another and then another.

Then you’ll get an idea ‘first hand’ of what houses cost.

I’ve gone through most of the last comments as those comments seem to be hitting towards more of the real issues here, and have picked out a few statements I’d like to comment on, if you’d care to allow me;

Bob says:” 1) Interest rates do vary, of course, and you only need to go back to August 2008 to see 5% interest in the UK. If you were to average out UK interest rates over the last 20 years, I’m sure you’ll find it is much nearer to 5.9% than 1.9%.”

Care to know what the average interest rate has been in Oz for the last 20 years bob?

From 1990 (when the interest rate was 16.5%) – July 2010 (7.5%) the average interest rate in Australia has been 8.99%

Seems that by your assumption of 5.9% for the UK over the same period, it was a lot cheaper than Australia.

Bob Says: “But as Australia has not suffered anywhere near as badly from the global financial crisis, we may soon reach the point where it’s as difficult year for first-time buyers as it is in England. Maybe we are already there, I’m not sure, it’s probably quite close.”

Mate, we are already there! My daughter is 28 years old, is an RN and has been for almost 4 years. She earns $48,000 a year (what do registered nurses earn in the UK?) and can’t get a mortgage. No bank will touch her.

She’s been told she must have been saving for the past 3 years minimum and must have at least $80k to show she is financially stable and even then, she’s a single applicant and they’d have issues with that.

It is generally accepted that when a bank stops lending, then people stop spending.

What are we hearing on Tv at the moment bob, and Jonno touched on above, shops are selling at 60-70% off and nobody is buying.

People are spending their money elsewhere, most likely on their mortgage repayments (interest rates have gone up how many times since October 2009?

With a warning yesterday from the RBA that they may increase rates again next month. source: http://www.smh.com.au/business/interest-rate-clouds-loom-large-over-gillards-election-parade-20100720-10jha.html)

Bob Says: “My post comparing English and Australian salaries demonstrates without doubt the earnings here are more than 30% higher than back in the UK. I have no explanation for what you say.”

Quite a contradictory statement you made there.
You have no doubt that earnings in Australia are more than 30% higher, but you have no explanation for why an accountant and an I.T. guy are earning less in Australia?

You may say that they are but one accountant and one I.T. guy, ok, but then you’re happy to base more than 30% higher salaries in Australia on a fixed amount of professions too aren’t you?

Bob says: “But if the pound recovers, if house prices in the UK start to go up again and interest rates change, everything changes.”

“IF” being the operative word. Compare now with now, not now in Australia with later in the UK., Bob.

Bob Says: “We came here because we really wanted to live in Australia and now that we are here, we love it. If house prices in England fell 60% and interest rates were nought percent, I still wouldn’t go back.”

Quite a statement to make. You are either totally insane, or the UK is much worse than we are led to believe, which begs the question as to why so many of us Aussies go there for working holidays each year.

My son has just returned last year after spending 12mths in London, He absolutely loved it, Pity he can’t have your passport, saying as you’ll never go back there.

Jonno says: “You yourself (according to your about me page) work from home, so you don’t have to travel far to work, so I’d imagine that if you live in this area, you’d be quite happy indeed.”

An interesting point. Not many Australians work from home Bob, most of us have to travel to and from our place of employment.

I’d be happier too if I could go from my bedroom to my home office, without having to get caught in traffic in Sydney or meet airline flights and connections.

I wonder if you do indeed work from home, that this hasn’t biased your views on “life in Oz”?

Bob says: “Having said all that, we still have plenty of properties here in Australia priced at around $280,000, being as you’ve asked.”

From what I read, jonno asked you to provide a ‘like for like” property for the same value as close to a major city, on the same size block for the same $.

You haven’t done that. I’d be very surprised if you could as well.

Bob says: “Finally, thanks for the additional scaremonger links at the foot of your comment”

A tad arrogant there bob?

From what I see, those links point to articles that are all valid arguments and discuss the current and past housing prices and trends in this country. All based on fact. Where’s the scaremongering?

I would draw your attention to the comments on some of those articles by everyday Aussies too bob…

I Notice the links go back to 2005, it would have been better if Jonno had included links back to 2000 when the house prices really first started to go up, but the articles do show this hasn’t just been something that started recently. It’s been happening for years.

jonno asks: ” I would be keen to hear your viewpoint on the content of those articles in the links I posted in my previous post above, and where you feel that information points to in terms of affordability in housing.”

So would I Bob.

Jonno asks: “Cedar vale is indeed one hour from Brisbane. Can you explain to the good readers here why Cedar vale and jimboomba are so cheap as opposed to 1 hr north and south of Brisbane Bob?”

I see you are saying that cedar vale is south of Brisbane. No, it is south west, i.e. Inland.
Follow the Motorway bob, it goes south.
Cedar vale and the local area, are known as countryside, which you yourself mentioned.

Countryside and ‘todays’ Australians do not mix. Australians prefer coastal living. You’d need to have money to live off in order to be able to move to the country, that’s why most people can’t afford to move to the country, and that’s why houses in the country are cheaper, because, ironically, no one can afford to live there.

jonno asks: “are you suggesting that the acreage is not part of the selling price? that $495K is just for the house? People don’t buy acreage that is essentially the side of a mountain full of trees. show me a house with horizontal, fairly cleared land which makes up 10 acres and I guarantee you, they’ll want more.”

Jonno, of course the land is part of the selling price.
In fact, land is sometimes more expensive than the house on it, which is why people are willing to pay a million dollars for a shack on 600m2 by the beach, they’ll just level the shack and build on it.

In saying that, if houses out west (or south west) are with land that is essentially nothing but a bragging right to say you have land, when in actual fact you have bought a ‘side of a mountain’, it’s a bit silly because you’ve just paid extra for the privilege of owning land you can’t ever use.

Bob says: “Forgive me for ignoring the first 263 words of your latest comment Jon, it’s just that it is almost entirely about the 10 acres of land that go with Cedar Vale which you’ve never seen.
It seems you are presenting an argument based entirely on your imagination. The land could be as flat as a pancake!”

And yet Bob, you yourself say it “could” be as flat as pancake. I take it you have never seen the house either bob? So, therefore you’re using your imagination too then.

bob says: “Its countryside with easy access to the beautiful beaches of the Gold Coast and the modern city of Brisbane. Nothing wrong with the area at all.”

No, I’m sure there isn’t, but everywhere is easy access in Australia bob, all you need is a car and a tank full of petrol (or a couple of tanks depending on where you’re going).

It will take a lot longer coming from Cedar vale to the beach than it will from say Coomera on the gold coast to the beach… but hey, all part of country living eh bob?

jonno says:” Mine is Derry/Donegal, that’s where I’m going and that’s my viewpoint, if it doesn’t fit your viewpoint because houses there are cheaper and better value than here then I wonder how you can” tell it as it is”

A fair point I would have thought?
You are trying to compare houses in the UK to houses here in Oz, but people come from different parts of the UK as they will to Oz.
Jonno seems to be caught on Derry/Donegal and that is his personal comparison to where he wants to go, compared to what similar houses here are.
I don’t see a problem with his comparison, and on the face of it I’d be inclined to agree, from the properties he has posted, that at this time, houses there are definitely better value than here.

Jonno asks: “I would like to ask a question from you: if you came out to Oz, without the money in your pocket from your house in England, (let’s say you were renting back in the UK), would you take out a mortgage and buy the same house you are in now?”

Interesting question. What say you bob?
I started with nothing in my pocket, and had to work my way up to buying my first home here, and it was not easy I can tell you. Especially when you’re paying interest of 16%+

I’d imagine it would be easier coming into Australia with a few hundred thousand and buying outright. (Just ask the Chinese, they’re doing it well)

Would you take on a mortgage in Australia now Bob?
Given the interest rates, uncertainty about housing prices, and the fact that you’d be travelling to work and back each day, bearing in mind you’d have to find work first of course?

jonno says: “No matter how good life is for you, you need to listen to the ‘average’ person on the street, and the word on the street is that this country is going down the pan.”

And I am one such person. I live this life every day, it’s not easy.

I’m paying approx. 40% of my salary into my mortgage, more if the rates go up again next month. I don’t live in a castle, I live in a 20 year old 3 bedroom, single garaged house on the outskirts of Sydney (about 1 ½ hours north of Sydney).

I have no choice about where I live. I need to be close to Sydney airport, but not so close to Sydney that it becomes completely unaffordable.

I’m treading water now as it is, and with the costs of almost every service going up, it is becoming harder and harder. My wage doesn’t go up by CPI every year, that is the real truth of life on the land bob. From a 47 year old Aussie who lives it.

I have a mate next door, he’s receiving centrelink benefits, and he just got an increase of $4 per week to pay for the increase in gas, electricity and water that he now has to pay.

And no, bob, $4 a week increase will not pay the difference.

No offence, but to come here and spend just over 2 ½ years here and tell me it’s nice and rosy, means you’ve either got too much money in your pocket, you really hate the UK, or you’re insane.

bob says: “I like to deal with the facts whereas you seem happier with your own imagination and hearsay, as in “I spoke with an old Aussie bloke today and he told me that he has never seen it so bad.”

You like to deal with the facts do you?
From a bloke who has been here just over 2 ½ years?

Don’t make me laugh. When you’ve lived here a few more years, maybe then you’ll know the facts when you’ve lived Aussie life a bit longer.

That “old Aussie bloke” is not an imagination.
I’m that bloke (not the one jonno is referring to though ).
I am your average Aussie, not someone who owns his house outright and has to work hard to keep the roof over his head because there is no sign of the interest rates dropping or house prices easing, which in any case would only add to my woes as I’d be paying for a house that is worth less.

Bob says: “Or guesses, as in guessing what my mortgage situation is, that I came from France, but sold a house in England. But none of that has any bearing at all on a direct comparison on the cost of housing in Australia with the cost of housing in the UK.”

Really? You have already got this information on other parts of your site, so no need to guess as to your financial situation.

You mention you sold your house in England, came here with a nice bundle of cash and bought your house and saved $ in the process, great.

Good for you.

What relevance does that have to the cost of housing in the UK v Australia, I would’ve thought it was obvious.

You’re quite happy to tell people how much you saved by buying a house here from the sale of your house in England.

You’re happy to tell people that your house in Australia is better value than the house you had in England.

You’re happy to tell people that for the same money in England people would struggle to find as good a deal as you did.

All seem like comparisons to the cost of housing in Australia v Cost of housing in the UK to me, bob…

I suppose since by your own admission, it is your first home in Australia that you have bought, there isn’t much other personal examples you can give is there?

Bob says: “And you say “Derry is more like Wollongong”? That is laughable! Wollongong is about 60 km from Sydney. Wollongong is like living anywhere around London’s commuter belt. Wollongong is not like Derry.”

Wollongong is not 60km from Sydney
CBD to CBD it is between 85km to 120km approx. – depending on what road you drive.

The shortest route is not always the quickest, and definitely with regards to travelling into Sydney!

I have never been to Derry or Northern Ireland. I have been to England, Scotland and Wales a few years back.

However, searching online about Derry, I see it is about 70Miles from Belfast, Northern Ireland’s capital, that is around 112km, so not too far off in distance from Wollongong to Sydney.

Therefore, I would think that Derry would be a lot like Wollongong.

Why do you not think it would be comparable bob?
Derry has the countryside around it, from what Jonno has listed. Wollongong has also countryside to the south (Illawarra and shoalhaven).

The further south you go, away from the major cities, the cheaper houses tend to get, because there is less employment opportunities and therefore less opportunity to own housing.

Wollongong has been largely a city that has been missed on investment for years, as a result it has missed out on a lot of development and employment opportunities.
A lot of people who live in Wollongong, work in Sydney and commute, just like I’d imagine they’d do with London and its bordering cities.

Derry, from what I have read about it, has been much the same. Although I see that recently it was announced as the UK’s City of Culture for 2013.
http://www.etravelblackboard.com/showarticle.asp?id=106782&nav=13

Seems then it has a brighter future ahead of it than Wollongong, in a sense that at least it’s government acknowledged it.
Wollongong has largely been ignored by the state and federal govt for years, until election time of course.

Just one thing jonno, Wollongong is NSW 3rd largest city, not 4th, but in terms of affordability, and given the example you outlined of that house in Warilla, I’m not stupid, (or blinded by the sun)

I’d take the house in burnfoot no worries.

Bob says: ” People can, and will, make their own minds up. The next 12 to 18 months may well be interesting.”

Yes it will be interesting indeed.
Speaking as a hard working everyday Aussie bloke with a mortgage and family to feed, I can honestly say it has never been this bad.

If the next 12-18 months bring more bad times then I think I’ll be jumping ship and moving to the UK as well.

Which begs the question bob, if you are a permanent resident wanting to become an Aussie citizen, why bother holding onto that British passport of yours?

It seems you have been blinded by the sun mate.
The sun won’t keep a roof over your head or feed your kids though.

But, from what I’ve read about your position, you’re better off than the average Aussie anyway.

And that’s why I’ve come to the conclusion of why you think it’s so great here.

Anywhere is great as long as you can afford it.

Cheers
Stevo

A typical Aussie bloke.

Bob says: “You’ve been watching my blog for some time and you decide that today you’re going to come in here like Clint Eastwood with a burst blood vessel? Calling me insane?”

From your response to me, You seem to be able to dish it out bob, but not so able to take it…

Bob says: “If you think I’m going to spend the next two hours of my life answering all your questions, I’m afraid you’re unlucky”

Or in other words, you can’t answer my questions without acknowledging that your answers will go against your core arguments.

Bob says: “For me to choose to answer so many questions, the minimum requirement would be for them to be asked in a civil tone. Perhaps the banter between me and Jon made you think you could step it up a notch”

No, It didn’t. But, I didn’t notice you weren’t too civil with Jonno and a few others above, so what makes you think you don’t have to be civil but expect others to?

And for the record, I believe I was as civil, based on the premise that you believe you were in previous responses.

Bob says: “But I will say this. I am in a much better position to judge the difference between life here in Australia and life in the UK than you are. I’ve lived in both countries. What do you know about England? I lived there for 50 years. You went there on holiday.”

No, you’ve been here 2 ½ years, and you’re trying to tell me, an Aussie who has been here 47 years, that life in Oz is nice and rosy. When it clearly isn’t.

I don’t pretend to know what’s going on in the UK, other than I’ve read online, and from the other UK posters here.

But seems to me you want to paint a dire picture of the UK when In fact from the posts here, it doesn’t seem to be ‘that’ dismal. Maybe when Australia goes into the same recession, it might be more prudent to compare the UK to Oz then…?

Bob says: “Do you think the struggles you are currently going through are unique to Australians?”

Ah, so you’re willing to acknowledge that Australians are struggling to live?

What about that nice rosy picture you’re painting there Bob, doesn’t that contradict that idea?

Or are you going to tell me that we’re not really struggling ‘that much’?

Bob says: “You’d go and live in London tomorrow would you? Based on what? Your son had a good time?”

Isn’t that what you’re telling people back in the UK bob? That you’re having a good time so everyone should therefore move here?

I notice that you have a particular favour for Queensland, perhaps because its sunny all the time? you do know that Queensland has the stigma of “The backward state” by the rest of Oz don’t you?

You say you’ve lived in the one property thus far. How can you make such statements as you do then about house prices.

Bob says: Real estate agents tell me the prices. I don’t have to buy a house to know what it costs.

Really? Ever been to a house auction bob? They make up about 40% of house sales in this country.

Compare now with now, not now in Australia with later in the UK., Bob.

Bob says: ” I am, I was just explaining you can’t keep moving countries each time the financial situation changes.

No you weren’t, You are quoting today’s house prices in Australia with future hypothetical situations in another country.”

You are either totally insane, or the UK is much worse than we are led to believe, which begs the question as to why so many of us Aussies go there for working holidays each year.

Bob says: “Yes, the UK is in bad shape. But it’s as I said, can’t hop countries everytime the economy changes. If I lived in Oz all my life, I’d go to the UK for a holiday too.”

So, does that mean that when you eventually get your Australian Citizenship, you’ll renounce your British citizenship?

Make the ultimate commitment bob, show everyone how much you really love Australia and are committed to make it your permanent home for life.

If you only intend on holidaying in the UK, you can do that on an Aussie passport.

Q: And yet Bob, you yourself say it “could” be as flat as pancake …. therefore you’re using your imagination too then.

Bob says: “ Not at all, just offering another possibility to feed Jon’s imaginative mind.”

‘Just offering another possibility’, yeah, your imagination.
And oh yes, your comment appears to belittle a poster at the same time.

Bob says: “And me working from home is irrelevant to house prices and my opinion of Australia. Those scaremongering articles, we had them all the time in the UK. It sells paper.”

Those articles are online bob, nothing to sell. Are you really going to be so ignorant as to ignore the facts in front of you?
To call them scaremongering when the average Aussie on the street is experiencing it.

Mate, I don’t know if you realise it, but you’re insulting every hard working Aussie out there by saying that.

Bob says: “Would I moved here now with no money and get a mortgage? I’m 52 years of age, of course I wouldn’t.”

So, are you saying that anyone in the UK who is considering moving to Australia full time, if you haven’t got a house in the UK to sell, and are over 50, then don’t bother moving?

Bob says: “As for the rest of your comments, you simply talk about Derry being equal to Wollongong, which it isn’t and I’ve already covered that. The fact that it’s 85 km drive and not 60 does not change my mind. If both you and Jon want to think they are equivalent, that’s up to you.”

Bob, the more I read your responses, the more I’m inclined to believe that you will believe what you want to believe, as long as it doesn’t interfere with your thinking. I think the poms call it wearing blinkers, we call it blinded by the sun…

Bob says: “But what is really nasty about your comments are all the personal snide attacks on me that are sprinkled throughout. I don’t need to list them, they are here for all to see.

But I have posted your comment because I believe in free speech. But I also believe in some common courtesies that you have failed to observe.”

I think of all the comments you have made in this whole thread, this is the one that people should take note of most, because from the comments you have made to me and others, it portrays you as a hypocrite mate.

Let me make an example: “I like to deal with the facts whereas you seem happier with your own imagination and hearsay”

That’s a pretty snide remark if ever I did see one, bob.

“It seems you are presenting an argument based entirely on your imagination”

Again, another comment belittling the poster and implying the comment is not worthy of discussion.

“Finally, thanks for the additional scaremonger links at the foot of your comment, I’ll read those when I’ve finished laughing at Thomas Su…”

Again, I think that comment shows your ability to be less ‘light hearted” as you put it, and more on the verge of arrogant, at least, that’s how I read it.

And finally, my personal favourite
“It’s not my problem that things aren’t working out so good for you, don’t come in here taking it out on me.”

Bob, if you can’t take it, don’t dish it out. My questions have all been valid arguments and you have failed to answer them, by “spitting the dummy”.

Bob says: “I run a blog here about life in Australia as compared with life in the UK. I am qualified to do that.”

ONLY if you’re impartial. I strongly believe you’re not being impartial. You’re basing life in Oz on your experience of it only.

The FACT of the matter is, that life in Australia is tough, bloody tough. It is not a rosy, land of milk and honey paradise that you are portraying. You are playing with people’s lives here. Your site (amongst others) is an important medium to those abroad who are or have considered a move to Australia.

You have a responsibility to be impartial in your words. I feel that you are blinded by the sun and using your own good fortune and situation to convince others that life indeed is great here, whilst conveniently ignoring both the experiences of those who have moved from the UK/Ireland or other parts of Europe, and the average Aussie also.

Why don’t you set up some kind of survey on your site, completely impartial of course, and ask Aussie’s what they think of the economy, house prices, and general living in Oz?

Bob say: “If you do come back, please use a pleasant tone, this is a light-hearted blog, we don’t need your agression?”

Aggression? Nobody’s aggressive here mate, frustrated at the way you’re portraying this country in a light it simply is not in. Like a politician, some might say.

Also, see the points above about your own “light hearted” replies…

I will finish with this note; if, like me, the average Aussie family is doing it tough, and you only have to do a quick google search to see that to be the case more and more each day, then consider this:

If we are being told we are not in a recession and have escaped, for the most part, the GFC,
What do you think this country is going to be like when we finally do get a recession/depression given the struggle most families face in the ‘here and now’ of modern day Australia?

Cheers,
Stevo

Bob, earlier you said , ‘ Welcome to blog biffo ‘. Little did you expect anyone to take that as an invite to come along with such fighting words. Normally I take out five or ten minutes to read what’s new on your site but contributors please be more concise, there are only so many hours in a day and as much as I enjoy Bob’s site even I can get p….d off. Now this is how I think it should go…………………….
Houses are definately becoming more and more unaffordable in OZ. I arrived in Australia in August 1974 and could purchase a three bedroomed home for as little as $A35,000 in Cheltenham Melbourne. My first job was as Second Chef at a golf club in that suburb on $A160 per week . The average wage was $A134 per week then ; I remember this because it was on the front page of the first newspaper I read in Melbourne . Fantastic , my first job in OZ and I’m laughing , what a great country . Three months later I’m Head Chef on $A200 per week …..I can’t believe my luck . This is the LUCKY COUNTRY. Now Bob , tell me how much that home costs now and how much I would have to earn to be as well off as I was then? I’ll tell you…… the house is $A550, 000 and I would need to earn $3142 per week ( not allowing for higher interest rates ). What happens now contributors is that Bob comes back and tells me how the area has improved and has become affluent and that I could get a place in a high crime area for a lot less. We disagree but hopefully remain friends and are BOTH happy where we live , me in the UK and Bobinoz .

Bob, I doubt that you will have read the latest UK figures. You will of course know that the assumption that the £pound might drop to as low as $A1.50 hasn’t yet materialized. In fact I think that very few, if any predictions, have been correct. From experience in my own business things are far from good but most of my suppliers have switched their manufacturing bases from Italy and Spain to the UK. I knew of this 6months ago and predicted that this would help the UK economy. One of my other predictions was that the number of UK citizens moving to Aus. would drop significantly. When I first left my mark on your site it was in response to what I considered misleading UK tv programmes encouraging people to emigrate.’ UK HOME SALES CONTINUE TO INCREASE ‘—-’ FIRST 6 MONTHS OF 2010 21% HIGHER THAN FIRST 6 MONTHS OF 2009 ‘—-’ CONSTRUCTION UP 6.6% IN THREE MONTHS ‘ etc. etc. So I think that what you feel is the reason for the drop in visa applications might not be correct. These details can be found on the BBC news site 21st. July 2010. You can also find a link to another news item ‘ UK Housing Market Now and Then ‘ . This shows the average house price in June 2007 was £184,000 ( you might remember that I recalled a figure of around £185,000 so not far out ) . The April 2010 figure is £167,802. I believe that, as I’ve always thought, no-one would want to sell-up at those prices and this would be the true reason figures would drop…not that they couldn’t sell. Anything sells if It’s cheap enough but who’s going to sell an average house in the UK and buy one in OZ. and that is why as I’ve said before people are keeping homes here and renting in OZ if they do move. I’ve not yet mentioned the number of returning migrants but will give you one of the five cases I know of in the past couple of months. A local family relocated to Perth seven years ago getting a good price for their home in the UK and buying at a very reasonable price in Perth.Their Perth house shot up in value to the point that it would have been unaffordable had they not bought when they did . With this huge increase and a great exchange rate they returned and bought a much better home in a better area than previous…for cash …. If they’d stayed in the UK they would still have had another ten years of their mortgage to pay . Therefore , how can it be a viable proposition to do the opposite ?

Bob, I was comparing the years that Jon gave figures for i.e.to May 2010 and to May 2009 with the UK house prices for those years so figures for 2007 are totally irrelevent. As regards the returning migrants I’m sure that their main reasons for returning were not financial but more it was the right time financially . I do know of others who have returned for reasons relating to money but none of the five above . One family were the son was offered trails with a number of Premiership football teams and a gentleman having made a small fortune retiring to the UK after his wife had died. I therefore know of seven homeowners who have sold up in OZ but none who have sold here. I’m sure plenty have but nowhere near previous numbers especially as I have yet to find a single person over in the Uk who thinks houses in OZ are cheaper. Maybe we are all wrong but if that is the case , then why couldn’t any real estate agent in Australia find a single home that was cheap enough for potential Poms. On a particular series of programmes three homes were shown , the first two always unacceptable and the third overpriced. Whether you are right or not Bob there is no doubt that the view of house prices in OZ is not shared by people over here .